Violet Gonda moderates the debate on the new Empowerment and Indigenisation regulations recently passed by the government. The guests are businessman Mutumwa Mawere, economist Daniel Ndlela, the President of the Affirmative Action Group Supa Mandiwanzira and journalist Peta Thornycroft.

Mawere: My companies were taken over by State action in 2004. Right now, workers can’t even go underground because the water level is rising and bills have not been paid. In Zambia, copper remained underground. It couldn’t be extracted because of policies that inhibit investment. Any businessperson would know that money cannot stay in a bad relationship. If Zimbabwe does what it needs to do, you don’t have to invite anyone to bank money.

Mandiwanzira: You’ve got to be responsible in a country. If there’s no liquidity in the market and you are turning over 30 million dollars a month, nobody’s taking that money away from you, you have a responsibility to make everyone else around you prosper. Make the banks prosper by circulating that money within that system. You are obtaining it out of a Zimbabwean asset.

Mawere: So you are now the social engineer?

Mandiwanzira: Investors will not lose money by banking it in Zimbabwe. Money must be operated in Zimbabwean accounts so that the liquidity crisis is resolved.

Gonda: Daniel, do you agree with the assertion that Zimbabweans have nothing to show for all the resources that have been exploited bearing in mind of what happened in the Chiadzwa diamond area where Zimbabwe has the resources but there are Zimbabweans who are exploiting those diamonds?

Daniel Ndlela: It is factual that Zimbabweans have nothing to show for the minerals under the ground but the issue here is- who is responsible for that 30 years after Independence? Is it some foreigner out there or some people who are ruling us?

Gonda: Why has it taken 30 years to redress this situation?

Mandiwanzira: You must ask those people who were responsible. As AAG and other empowerment groups, we’ve been making noise for many, many years. The move that we began to see in the financial sector where banking licences were issued to people like Mutumwa was out of this push. The same pressure has been put on the government to say why our people are not playing part in big enterprises. The majority of these mines were given away. These concessions were given away by just a government rubber stamp, nothing else. It was a matter of no money brought in, special concessions, bank your money in foreign countries, do whatever you want, you don’t pay tax for the next five years and all these kind of things. If you are giving a foreigner that benefit, 51% of that benefit must accrue to a Zimbabwean.

Daniel Ndlela: The top leadership is sickening and that is the point. As long as we have laws operating in opaqueness, empowerment, whether it’s indigenous, will benefit a few. The people who should be empowered are the working people of this country, not the few intellectuals who are intellectually dishonest in the first place. They should be empowered through normal avenues, not the avenues of picking up a few at the discretion of  the minister.

Gonda: Should companies fill in their plans for indigenisation by March 01 or defy this, or worse still, strip down the assets and close?

Daniel Ndlela: The law has been set. Companies will either refuse to invest (considering the cake will be smaller by 51%); be less enthusiastic; close down, bolt out or keep the status quo.

Gonda: Morgan Tsvangirai, the Prime Minister, was not consulted. Did he really need to be consulted?

Thornycroft: Morgan should have been consulted. He is the Prime Minister of this country but he seems to have no power. It seems that the inclusive government is at Mugabe’s decision about whether something will or will not be fulfilled from the Global Political Agreement. It’s nearly 18 months since the Global Political Agreement was signed but we’re stuck and paralysed on outstanding issues. Until we have a new constitution, hold free and fair elections, why would anybody invest in us? We have a very bad record of our government taking money, and de-industrialisation. We’ve lost at least 40 or maybe 60% of the industries we had in 1980, particularly in the last ten years. We are a very bad risk country and until the political situation is sorted out, I can’t imagine there will be any investment at all. Let alone when you can go to jail if you haven’t managed to sort out 51% of the company that you might have been building up for 15, 20, 40 years.

Gonda: Comment on the Prime Minister’s statement that the regulations are null and void since this issue was not discussed in Cabinet.

Mandiwanzira: These regulations were gazetted by a government in which the Prime Minister is part of. The Minister who gazetted the regulations reports to the Prime Minister in the Council of Ministers. This was done by the government of Zimbabwe. This is the law. If you want to change the law, take the whole process back to parliament and see what you can do.

Gonda: But the Prime Minister says it is not the right thing and this regulation was sneaked through. Is that not a problem?

Mandiwanzira: The Movement for Democratic Change is in parliament with ZANU PF. They passed this law. It should have been stopped if the Prime Minister and his political party didn’t agree. It should have been stopped at the process of being legislated.

Gonda: But this was done when ZANU PF was still in the majority in parliament.

Mandiwanzira: They had been voted by the people of Zimbabwe to be in the majority.

Gonda: Mutumwa, your thoughts on this?

Mawere: Zimbabwe requires some adjustment, a different world view. Zimbabwe requires building confidence. Without it, you might have the best resources in the world but they will remain in the ground. You may have the best laws and procedures but you know, they’re toxic at the end of the day because they discourage the very people we need to build the country and provide jobs. Zimbabwe is too small to command its own destiny without other people’s input. Zimbabwe will remain whether this President or that President or this Prime Minister or that Prime Minister comes or goes. But what are Zimbabwe’s interests and how can they best be advanced? Does this law advance? Does the Reconstruction Law advance? Does AIPPA, does POSA advance the Zimbabwean cause? We may broaden the conversation to understand why people would leave Zimbabwe if there was promise.

Gonda: A final word ?

Daniel Ndlela: It’s a bad law. It is not going to encourage investment in our country. It is coming at a time when Zimbabweans need more money in their system.

Mandiwanzira: One, here is an opportunity for Zimbabweans who have worked so hard in the Diaspora to come back and serve themselves. Two, people (especially investors) need to read and understand this law because if they rely on media reports, they will be misled. Investors must identify the right partner and that right partner must pay market value for whatever shareholding they are getting. I would like to encourage every Zimbabwean to seize this opportunity and make a difference. This is not a free for all, you’ve got to raise money and buy into a business that you can take forward, not a business that you can run down. This is the festive season for all banks. This train is not stopping no matter how much people talk.

Mawere: We should rely on what has worked. Laws that will not advance the collective interests of the country require review and interrogation.

Thornycroft: It is difficult to do business in Zimbabwe anyway. The record of the previous government has been to legislate, restrict, control, take over and interfere with. We have an economy 30 years after Independence that is a small fraction of what it was in 1980, where industries have closed down and where perhaps only the retail sector has enlarged. We need industries that create goods, services, jobs and a law like this is just anti expansion. It’s actually a childish law, it’s a law based on spitefulness. It has nothing to do with creating a Zimbabwe where the majority of the population is employed and where the raw materials are beneficiated for everyone’s good - for the companies’ good, for the workers’ good etc. ZANU PF has no record of success and Minister Saviour Kasukuwere who has created these legislations in consultation with his colleagues, should be advised to do what is necessary to expand the economy and not contract it. Instead of taking over companies, why is the energy of this country not going into creating new companies to replace those that have closed down in the last ten to 15 years? That would be creative, this is just destructive.

Culled from: Hot Seat, a SW Radio Africa Transcript